投资机构作为最敏锐的鲸鱼也逐步开始布局，近日Multicoin Capital 合伙人 Kyle Samani也表示：“对 NFT NFT 有很多子行业，包括艺术、音乐、一般 IP 以及房地产等，这些都是完全独立的业务。总的来说，我们正在寻求在这个领域进行更多的投资。” 显而易见，NFT逐渐从一条投资“隐显”慢慢浮现成为一条趋势“显线”。

9月23号早上10点（周三），Beep币扑邀请到Dapper Labs CEO/Flow创始人Roham，NFT首富/WHALE创始人WhaleShark，分布式资本合伙人Rem Ong，一起聊一聊“NFT会是下一个投资风口吗？”以下是采访实录：

Mia Bao：首先有请我们嘉宾先做一个简单自我介绍，并且跟大家分享一下自己以及团队的区块链行业经历吧？@Roham @WhaleShark @Rem OngPlease give us a brief introduction about yourself and how you joined blockchain industry at the first place ?

Roham: Founder/ceo of dapper labs, before this i was founder/ceo of axiom zen, the company that created cryptokitties! Got into bitcoin back in 2013/2014 thanks to Dieter Shirley who was my CTO at Axiom Zen - he mined his first btc in 2010…! Summer of 2017 we basically went through 20+ different projects at Axiom Zen before choosing NFTs starting with CryptoKitties... Dieter writes ERC-721 the non-fungible token standard, then we build a little prototype with a team of 4-5 people that we launch at EthWaterloo.. That goes really well so we 4x the team and build most of CryptoKitties v1 in about a month ? and the rest is history.

大家好，我是dapper labs的创始人/首席执行官，在此之前，我是创建加密猫（cryptokitties母公司Axiom zen的创始人/首席执行官！我入圈要感谢Dieter Shirley，他是我在Axiom Zen的首席技术官，他在2013/2014年就开始使用比特币-而且他在2010年就开采了第一个BTC ... 2017年夏天，在选择以CryptoKitties开头的NFT之前，我们基本上在Axiom Zen上经历了20多个不同的项目... Dieter编写了ERC-721非同质化代币标准，然后我们4～5个人组成了一个小团体， 再然后我们在EthWaterloo上发布上线了～进展非常顺利，后面我们将团队提高了4倍的规模，并在大约一个月的时间内建立了大部分CryptoKitties v1～

Axiom Zen is the company behind products like zenhub.com (now 2nd largest partner of github, customers including big open source projects as well as apple microsoft nasa ?shopify and 500k+ other developers).

除此之外，Axiom Zen还是Zenhub.com背后的母公司（Zenhub现在是github的第二大合作伙伴，客户包括大型开源项目，以及苹果微软公司的shopify和500k+其他开发者）。

WhaleShark：大家好啊，我是WHALE项目的创始人，我叫WhaleShark，这是第三次可以参加Beep Crypto的活动，非常荣幸！今天就语音跟大家交流吧，我首次接触区块链的这个行业是在2012年买了我的第一个比特币，那时候投资了相当多的一些金额，然后在2015年完全转换到以太坊，后来在2019年买了我的第一个NFT，从2019年到现在，目前为止已经收集了15000多个NFT，然后再2020年五月份我建立了Whale这个社区，迄今为止，WHALE市值已经超过5000万，而且WHALE大户也已经超过2500人。

Rem Ong：Hi, I'm Remington, and I'm a partner at Fenbushi Capital, the first and most active blockchain VC in Asia.??

My early background was in computer science and investment banking, and by 2014, I had been involved in a number of startups when I was first introduced to Bitcoin and blockchain.??Having this background helped me connect the dots quickly on how blockchain technology could revolutionize finance and other industries.??I joined an early blockchain startup as a co-founder, and while looking for funding to scale, we realized in 2014 there were very few VCs who understood blockchain, which inspired us to start Asia's first blockchain VC.??

For the past 5 years, we have been very active in building up the ecosystem, supporting over 120 teams globally using blockchain to disrupt a wide range of industries.

大家好，我是Remington，是亚洲第一家也是最活跃的区块链风投——分布式资本的合伙人。

我的早期背景是计算机科学和投资金融，到2014年，当我第一次接触比特币和区块链时，我已经参与了许多初创公司。有了这样的背景，我很快就能将区块链技术如何彻底改变金融和其他行业联系起来。2014年，我作为联合创始人加入了一个早期的区块链初创公司，在寻找资金的同时，我们意识到很少有VC了解区块链，这启发我们创办了亚洲第一个区块链VC。

在过去的5年里，我们一直非常积极地建立生态系统，支持全球120多个团队使用区块链颠覆传统行业。

Mia Bao：2020年公链赛道依然拥挤，最受中国市场关注的ETH、Polkadot、Filecoin以及交易所公链已经抢占了大部分市场眼球，请问Dapper Labs为什么还要单独开发一条公链呢？和以太坊相比，有什么核心竞争力？对于Flow来说，你们面向的市场和用户是谁，中国普通用户可以如何参与呢？But so far, Public chains like Etherum, Polkadot, Filecoin and exchange chain still keep flourishing. Why would Flow team decide to develop a new public chain? Compared with Ethereum, what core competitiveness does it have and what kinds of problem is it designed for solving? For Flow, What's your ?target markets and users, and how can ordinary Chinese users participate?@Roham?

Roham：So we spoke to all those teams. We spent a year doing research into L2 and with different L1s. After cryptokitties’ launch we sat down with vitalik, dan larimer, the parity team, read 100+ white papers.. We did not feel any of them had a winning solution: from a technology perspective, almost all teams were pursuing some variant of sharding as a means of scaling the network – we believed (and we were right) that this makes application development and composability way harder. From a go to market perspective, none of these projects were thinking with the user experience in mind – they were building technology and hoping that other people would make them usable. But the problem is, when you don’t have a use-case in mind, your platform ends up being very impractical.?

我们跟上述团队都聊过了。我们花了一年的时间研究layer2和不同的layer1解决方案。在加密猫的启动之后，我们和Vitalick，Dan，Parity团队都聊过，阅读了100+白皮书。。。。但我们不认为他们有一个成功的解决方案：从技术的角度来看，几乎所有的团队都在追求某种版本的分片，作为扩展网络的一种手段——但我们相信（我们是正确的），这使得应用程序开发和可组合性更加困难。

从市场的角度来看，这些项目都没有考虑到用户体验——他们在构建技术，并希望其他人可以使用它们。但问题是，当你没有一个使用案例的想法时，你的平台就会变得非常不切实际。

Compared to Ethereum 1, Flow keeps the same composability and synchronicity (every smart contract on ETH1 can interact with every other smart contract and wallet in a single atomic transaction --> this is the power of defi) but cuts cost 1000x and increases speed and throughput by orders of magnitude?

与以太坊1相比，Flow保持了相同的可组合性和同步性（ETh1上的每个智能合约都可以在单个原子交易中与其他智能合约和钱包进行交互，这就是defi的强大），但是我们做到了成本降低1000倍，速度和吞吐量提高了几个数量级。

Compared to ETH2 / NEAR / Polkadot / Dfinity / all the others, Flow is a much more powerful architecture that gets massive increases in speed and throughout WITHOUT sharding and without compromising decentralization?

与ETh2/NEAR/Polkadot/Dfinity/所有其他架构相比，Flow是一个更加强大的架构，它在速度和整个过程中都得到了巨大的提升。

Basically: instead of sharding the network, Flow works the way modern CPUs - or supply chains – work: specialization. Different node types specialize in different stages of a transaction.?

总而来说，Flow并没有分割网络，而是采用了现代的CPUs或供应链的工作方式来解决扩容问题；同时实现了各个节点的专业化，不同的节点专门负责交易的不同阶段。

So you can still have very powerful machines doing the computation at datacenter scale, but you can also have thousands of less powerful machines that actually have the control (unlike EOS, Solana etc where powerful computers do most of the work *and* have all the control)?

所以你仍然可以让非常强大的机器在数据中心规模上进行计算，但是你也可以有成千上万的不那么强大的机器实际上拥有控制权（不像EOS，Solana等强大的计算机做大部分的工作*和*拥有所有的控制）

this is A16Z writing about the Flow architecture back when they led the first round for Flow: https://a16z.com/2019/10/14/flow-scalability-trilemma-blockchain-architectures/?

这是A16Z关于流架构的文章，他们领投了Flow的第一轮投资：https://a16z.com/2019/10/14/flow-scalability-trilemma-blockchain-architectures/

Mia Bao：纵观过去想要对标或者取缔以太坊的公链从目前现状来看，都还未成功，你们会担心Flow落入同样的结局吗？@Rohambut looking back at public chains that wanted to benchmark or excel Ethereum in the past, they seem to fail from the current status quo, are you worried that Flow will fall into the same ending?@Roham

Roham: not only because our technology actually works and is practical, but also because we have a rock solid go to market strategy. 不仅是因为我们的技术是可行的，也是因为我们有一个坚实的市场战略。

1)we have our flagship products, NBA Top Shot is already our most successful product ever?

我们有我们的旗舰产品（成功案例），NBA Top Shot 已经是我们有史以来最成功的产品。

2) we have a long list of partners, 100+ companies with real projects not just pilots.you can see a big lis of them on our website but i can name drop some here: Ubisoft, Animoca, Warner Music, Turner Sports, Opensea, nWay, Sumo Digital (a tencent company) and many more??2)我们有非常多的合作伙伴，100多家公司有真正的项目，而不仅仅是试点。你可以在我们的网站上看到很多合作方比如：育碧、阿尼莫卡、华纳音乐、特纳体育、奥威赛、纽威、相扑数码（腾讯公司）等等。

3)we already have an amazing indie developer community – you can check out the buzz on our discord.gg/flow - also check out the amazing flow developed portal: almost 3000 projects and over 6000 smart contracts have already been made using the Playground?

4)我们已经有了一个非常棒的独立开发者社区--大家可以来discord上来看看我们的火爆程度：discord.gg/flow ---还可以查看令人惊叹的Flow开发界面：将近3000个项目和6000多个智能合同已经在开发了。Mia Bao：NFT领域除了Flow的一些巨大进展之外，WHALE最近也是有很多进展！WHALE是最早在NFT+DeFi布局的项目之一，而随着WHALE的Pleage Mining，Liquility Mining， NFT Mining各系列动作之后，WHALE一直在稳步增长：更多人加入，更多使用场景，更好的流动性。但有人会提出异议WHALE是一个社交代币，他的价值支撑与增长来自于哪里？社区曾有人概括“WHALE=NFT领域的伯克希尔哈撒韦”，请问你会如何将WHALE运作模式与人们耳熟能详的品牌对标？WHALE TANK目前运行如何，有没有想要投资的标的？@WhaleSharkBesides the big update about Flow, Whale recently keep forward really fast as well. WHALE is one of the first projects to combine NFT+DeFi together. After pledge?Mining, liquidity?Mining, and NFT Mining , WHALE has been growing steadily: more people joined, more usage scenarios, and better liquidity. But some people will question about the real value and function of a social money, how do you respond to that? People in the community ?summed up that "WHALE = Berkshire Hathaway in the NFT field". How would you benchmark WHALE to other traditional bands ? How is WHALE TANK currently running? Are there any targets you want to invest in recently ? @WhaleShark

WhaleShark：最近社交代币的增长非常快速，而且每个社交代币的功能都是不一样的。传统来说，很多电子货币，他们的价值概念是反映未来的应用场景，以及对未来社会的可能贡献映射。设计代币时，我们会看见很多多元化的价值概念，我举个例子，有一个社交代币叫Alex，这个代币，是代表Alex，这个人未来三年的收入份额。

还有个例子，最近新出来一个币叫做Coin，这个是CoinArtist发行的一个社交代币，这是一个知名游戏公司创始人发行的，可允许人可以用它直接来去换更好的一些游戏的资产。

那么对于WHALE来说，其实我们的价值概念是四方面：第一方面，价值存储。我们The Vault里面有5000多个NFT，还没有加进去的还有9000多个，而且这些NFT都是业界比较受欢迎的一些项目，而且可以说是最稀少的，最热门的一些。所以价值储存的功能应该会按照时间长的越来越快，按照每个月的报告来看，The Vault里面的NFT资产每个月以三位数的涨幅在涨。

第二个功能就是交易媒介的功能，这个分两部分来说。如果大家上OpenSea的话，你会发现很多艺术家不仅仅接受ETH支付，还在接受WHALE支付。另外，很多NFT的创作者已经发现WHALE是一个非常好的价值储存载体，很多人会创造一些只能用WHALE来购买的作品。

WHALE的第三个功能可以算是一个能提供投资回报率的工具，我稍微解释一下。最近WHALE社区推出了两个DeFi功能的产品，第一个是流动性挖矿，第二个是Hold to Play（H2P）。

在流动性挖矿，如果你贡献超过600美金在我们的流动性池子里，每个月可以瓜分8000WHALE的奖励。关于Hold to Play呢，在我们Discord里面有两个角色可以拿到WHALE奖励，第一个是Whale，然后第二个是Dolphin，如果一个人持有600+的WHALE那他可以进入一个秘密渠道（中国用户如果不上discord可以直接联系中国社区BeepCrypto），每月瓜分5500个WHALE奖励，另一个是Dolphin，如果你在discord里面有11个WHALE的话，也可以参与一些社区活动赚取WHALE。

第四个功能是比较心理学的功能，我们社区的大户都是觉得好像拿着WHALE像是一个荣誉标志。

那么对于如何去拓展WHALE品牌呢，我们有三个主要活动：第一，我们要保持我们的核心竞争力，那我们的核心竞争力是什么呢？就是The Vault里面的NFT资产，我们必须持续增加未来价值会持续增长的NFT资产。核心产品也包括我们WHALE核心社区，我们现在已经有2500多个大户，而且这个每个月都在涨。

第二个策略，就是我们会通过Podcast, articles等继续推进WHALE的教育，我们社区里面有一个Whale FM，我们会和很多NFT创始人进行对话，这也会加深大家对NFT的了解。

第三，我们也有一个WHALE营销团队，他们每个月都在做一些比较特殊的营销活动。最后我们秉承一个原则，就是我们必须得保持WHALE社区的一个理念。就是公开公正共赢，公开呢，就是我们领导层的每一个行动都是可以通过区块链来去正是证明的。公正呢，我们也不是把利润放在第一位，而且是做正当的事情。然后第三个呢，就是无论如何我们做任何东西，我们都会追求一个共赢的结果，这样的话大家都能正面的来去拓展这个新领域。

关于WHALE Tank，这是一个VC部分，我们是一个月之前开始的，而且那个时候他们整体的金额是8万美金左右，目前的资本金额是在60万左右，所以增长的也非常快。目前我们在用WHALE Tank来去做一些流动性挖矿，所以他每天都在涨，我刚看了昨天的收入，差不多是3000多美金左右。虽然现在没有任何的一些投资的目标，我们会继续把这个算是一个VC基金，等它涨到100万美金左右，会开始去筛选一些比较好一点的项目去做一些天使投资。

Mia Bao：都说DeFi，分布式存储，波卡生态是区块链2020年投资显线，而NFT则可能是一条投资“隐线”，请问@Rem Ong，你们是怎么看今年的投资赛道？你们在NFT这个赛道上进行了哪些布局呢，投资逻辑是什么？

It is said that DeFi, distributed storage, Polkadot ecology is the "clear investment targets" of blockchain in 2020, while NFT may be an investment "hidden line" (potential upcoming investment targets) , how do you see this year's investment chance? What have Fenbushi Capital done within NFT realm? What's the principles of investing a project ？ @Rem Ong

Rem Ong: When looking at investments, there are always opportunities both in the short term and the long term. 在投资方面，短期和长期都一直有机会。

Take Polkadot for example, while a lot of investors started taking notice of the ecosystem this year, Fenbushi Capital invested in Parity Technologies in 2016 and in Polkadot's seed round in 2017, so it can take several years for a project to move from early development to mainstream awareness, and even now, there's still a long way to go for Polkadot to reach its full potential.?

以Polkadot为例，虽然很多投资者今年开始关注生态系统，分布式资本在2016年投资了Parity，并在2017年投资了Polkadot的种子轮。因此，一个项目从早期发展到主流还需要几年的时间，即便是现在，波卡仍有很长的路要走，才能充分发挥潜力。

In the same way, I think right now, we are still in the early days of NFT use cases, and there is a lot of potential for growth in the future.??When most people think about NFTs these days, it is usually linked to gaming, digital art, and blockchain domain names.??But already, we are starting to see broader use cases for NFTs, from event ticketing to DeFi-linked insurance policies, and many of these use cases may be easier to explain to the non-crypto population.??I think this is why some people see NFT as a “hidden line” for investment, because it is still very early, still not yet obvious for a lot of people, and there is very big potential for growth in the future.?

同样的，我认为现在，我们仍然处于NFT的早期阶段，并且在未来还有很大的增长潜力。当大多数人想到NFT，它通常与游戏、数字艺术和区块链域名相关联。但是，我们已经开始看到更广泛的用例用于NFT,从票务到DeFi相关的保险，这些用例中的许多可能更容易向非加密用户普及。我认为这就是为什么一些人认为NFT是投资的“隐线”，因为它还处于非常早期的阶段，对于很多人来说还不明显，并且在未来还有很大的增长潜力。

In the NFT space, Fenbushi Capital has supported a number of projects, with announced ones including @roham Dapper Labs (creators of Cryptokitties), Mythical Games (creators of Blankos), and 8 Hours Foundation (creators of Vimworld).?

在NFT领域，Fenbushi Capital投资了一些项目，已经宣布的项目包括@roham Dapper Labs（加密猫的创造者），Mythical Games（Blankos的创造者），和8小时基金会（Vimworld的创造者）。

As early stage investors, we place a lot of emphasis on the team and founders, that there is a good balance between strong technical capabilities and ability to execute and go to market, as well as a defensible competitive edge. ?So for instance, in Dapper Labs' case, investing in the team that created the ERC-721 standard plus the rock solid go-to-market strategy that Roham mentioned earlier made it an obvious choice ?

作为早期的投资者，我们非常重视团队和创始人，在强大的技术能力和执行能力与上市能力之间有很好的平衡，也有可靠的竞争优势。例如，在Dapper Labs的案例中，投资创建ERC-721标准的团队，再加上Roham之前提到过的坚如磐石的市场战略，这使得投资它成为一个明显的选择。

Mia Bao：Flow生态中已经有NBA、UFC、华纳音乐、育碧游戏、三星、币安BUSD等行业巨头，任何一个都有希望带来海量用户。在中国，DeFi发展受益于以太坊生态，波卡受益于Web3大量的Grants支持，Filecoin受益于百亿级矿机生态，而就目前Flow披露的合作伙伴来看，仅有Cdot Network一家来自于中国。请问Dapper Labs将如何选择生态合作伙伴？你们会通过什么样的方式增加社区的支持和凝聚力？会为生态发展提供什么支持？是否会在中国成立团队长期运营？@Roham Gharegozlou

In the Flow ecosystem, there are already industry giants such as NBA, UFC, Warner Music, Ubisoft Games, Samsung, Binance BUSD, and any of them can actually bring massive users. In terms of community fostering, the development of DeFi has benefited from the Ethereum ecosystem, Polkadot has benefited from Web3's massive Grants support, and Filecoin has benefited from the tens of billions of mining ecosystems. How will Dapper Labs choose ecological partners? What kinds of support will you provide for ecological development? Will you plan to ?set up a long-term partner in China? and how? ?@Roham Gharegozlou

Roham：We have lots of big brands and will continue to work with top 10 global IPs directly but we are really turning our focus to the community.我们有很多大品牌合作，并将继续直接与全球排名前十的IPs合作，但我们正在把我们的重点转向社区。

In terms of support: we have a network of non-profits, accelerators, and universities that developers can go to get FLOW credits from - so that no developer will be blocked from building on Flow because they dont have enough tokens to deply their first contract or onboard their first 1000 users. we call this the Cloudburst program and it includes everyone from the Andreessen Horowitz Cultural Leadership Fund to Yonsei and Berkeley University. We would love to find similar community organizations in China that can run a Flow validator node and distribute its rewards to their community in the way I'm describing here. This has been very successful.?

在支持方面：我们有一个非营利网络，加速器和大学，开发商可以去获得FLOW学分-这样，就不会有开发人员因为没有足够的代币而不能在Flow上部署他们的第一个合同或首批1000用户。我们称之为 Cloudburst 云爆计划，它包括从 Andreessen Horowitz文化基金到 Yonsei和伯克利大学的人员。我们很乐意在中国找到类似的社区组织，它们可以运行一个Flow节点，并以我在这里描述的方式将其奖励分配给社区。这已经被验证是非常成功的了。

We dont' like "giving out grants" we don't think it's effective, but we do have a portion of our ecosystem development fund set aside as collateral subsidies for smart contract / protcol-based business models on Flow – think something like YFI but applicable to mainstream consumers. we'd like to use our FLOW to back and accelerate those kinds of projects. 」

我们不喜欢“直接给grants”，我们不认为它是有效的，但我们有我们的生态系统发展基金的一部分作为抵押补贴，用于智能合约/基于协议的商业模式。但适用于主流消费者。我们希望使用我们的FLOW来支持和加速这类项目。

Mia Bao：NFT是数字商品，要在具体场景中才会体现价值，继而产生价格。2017年有加密猫和Decentraland，2020年NFT概念再次翻红，三年过去了，整个NFT赛道（基础设施、单个NFT）发生了哪些重要变化，我们是否只是进入了周期性的概念Fomo之中？另外在NFT细分赛道中你最看中的领域是什么？很多人认为现有的这些场景没有那么大的想象空间，认为NFT还需要拓展更广一些的领域比如保险等金融领域，你们有没有一些看法？认为NFT还可以和哪些进行结合会比较有意思？@WhaleShark @Rem Ong

CryptoKitties and Decentraland springed up in 2017 and now NFT seems to be popular again this year. what do you think change the most within the three years (infrastructure, ?NFT asscets,etc. ), or do we just Fomo with concept again with nothing changing ? Meanwhile, Which directions you believe have the most potential? Some people may think those existing scenarios are lack of imagination, and NFT can be applied to other senarios like insurance etc. How do you think? What else do you think NFT can be combined with? @WhaleShark @Rem Ong

Rem Ong: The space has definitely come a long way since 2017.?When Cryptokitties was launched in 2017, you could only access it using Metamask, as no mobile wallets supported NFTs; Etherscan couldn’t show you the NFTs in your address, Opensea was just launching in beta, and ERC-721 was just a draft EIP, which wouldn’t be formalized until July 2018.?

自2017年以来，NFT领域无疑已经走过了漫长的道路。当Cryptokitties在2017年推出时，大家只能使用Metamask访问，因为不支持移动钱包。Etherscan不能显示NFT地址，Opensea只是测试版，而ERC-721仅仅是一个草稿，要到2018年7月才能正式发布。

Over the past 3 years, we’ve seen the space develop at a steady pace, with not only infrastructure maturing and new projects building using NFTs, but also the continued experimentation of new economic models in auctions, farming, etc. for NFT.?

在过去的三年里，我们看到了这个领域的稳步发展，不仅是基础设施的成熟和新项目的建设使用。NFTs同时也在拍卖、挖矿等领域不断尝试新的经济模式。

Initially, trading of digital collectibles and art are easy to understand for many users, as are playing games with in-game assets or registering domain names.??Now, we are starting to see some more complex use cases, whether it’s using valuable NFTs as collateral backing for tokens such as $WHALE or minting individual tradable insurance covers.?

最初，数字收藏品和艺术品的交易对许多用户来说很容易理解，就像玩游戏中的资产或注册域名一样。现在，我们开始看到一些更复杂的用例，无论是使用有价值的NFTs作为抵押品背书的token，如$WHALE还是其他各可交易的个人背书型代币。

Even major companies are experimenting with NFTs, as Nike patented a system for using NFTs to create digital shoes, where “breeding” these CryptoKicks like CryptoKitties can actually generate new shoe designs that may inspire Nike’s real world product development.?

甚至大公司也在尝试NFT,作为耐克专利的使用系统NFT为了创造数码鞋，在那里“繁殖”CryptoKicks就像CryptoKitties这样，实际上可以激发产生新的鞋设计，可能会激发耐克的现实世界的产品开发。

Some people have speculated that NFTs could be linked to real world assets like real estate or physical art, but I think the biggest potential for NFTs lies in digital native assets.??Domain names, for example, are a digital equivalent of real estate, as each domain name is unique, some have more value than others, and represent someone’s presence in the digital world.??Just like country club memberships in the real world are resalable and offer the holder access to specialized services, NFTs can serve as a “membership card” to some digital services, possibly something as simple as a Netflix subscription that is tradable or as complex as accessing specific AI algorithms for computations.?

一些人推测NFT可以与现实世界的资产，如房地产或物理艺术，但我认为最大的潜力NFT在于数字本土资产。例如，域名是房地产的数字等价物，因为每个域名都是独一无二的，有些域名比其他域名有更多的价值，并代表某人在数字世界中的存在。就像现实世界中的乡村俱乐部会员资格是可转售的，并为持有者提供专业服务，NFT可以作为一些数字服务的“会员卡”，可能像Netflix订阅一样简单，可以交易，也可以像访问特定的人工智能算法一样复杂。

There is a lot of room for imagination as well for convergence with other technologies.??NFTs can be combined with distributed file storage where an NFT is like a “key” to a locker which gives you access to certain files or media.??IoT can link NFTs to the physical world, where instead of having a physical key to a car, I can use an NFT in my wallet to unlock my car, and when I want to sell my car, I can just sell the NFT to someone else and I will no longer be able to access this car.?

与其他技术融合的空间也很大。NFT可以与分布式文件存储相结合，NFT就像进入储物柜的“钥匙”，可以让你访问某些文件或媒体。物联网可以将NFT连接到物理世界，在那里，我可以使用钱包中的NFT打开汽车的锁，当我想卖掉我的车时，我可以把NFT卖给其他人，这样我就不能再访问这辆车了。

In summary, we’ve come a long way since CryptoPunks and CryptoKitties, but there is still so much potential in NFTs that has yet to be unlocked.?

综上所述，我们已经走过了很长的路，但仍然有这么多的潜力。NFTs还是一个没有打开的新机遇。

WhaleShark：我觉得王总说的非常好，非常全面啊，我就再增加几个点吧。第一个，别说是前三年，仅仅这一年就已经看见了非常大的成长。第一个来说就是项目以及产品的一个多元化，三年之前可能你只有CK，还有DCL吧。但是现在如果你看NFT领域的话，你也有这个加密艺术啊，就是有包含潜能变成AAA的游戏，像Gods Unchained，还有这些授权的这些收藏品，比如，Dapper Labs的NBA top shot，Godfather好像也在创造一些比较有特色的收藏品。

而且现在产品也是越来越多元化，之前可能只有一些游戏的资产，但是现在呢，有2D的这些电子艺术，收藏品，反而现在好像我比较看好的，就是这些3D的这些数码艺术以及收藏品。第一个，就是整体环境的一个成长，之前可能你只有一个地方可以去买产品，而且没有地方可以去展示，但是现在，像CV或者SandBox之类的产品，可以让你把你的收藏品展示NFT资产来贷款，或者你也可以去做NFT的部分所有权。第三个变化，就是领域给别人看，达到一个更深刻的交流。第二个，就是金融方面的一个成长，现在大家还可以用里面的一个竞争的一个增长吧，量变产生质变，比如我们说加密艺术，你现在superare，KnownOrigin，makersplace，市场竞争越来越多。虚拟世界呢，像DCL，CV，Sandbox，这些项目也是在进入一个比较大一点的一个竞争期，所以也是在推高质量。然后连我们在一个NFT公链方面也在看见很大的一个竞争，本来大家好像都是在以太坊上面好像在弄，但是后来Wax是在EOS上弄的，现在又有Flow，Immutable X等等，我觉得好像这个竞争是非常健康的，而且未来用户体验也会变得越来越好。

我最后的一点就是三年之前的一个变化，就是收藏家，我昨天去看了资料，可能三年之前，整体行业的一个销售金额大概是5万美金左右，那么如果现在的话，平均大概是在15万左右一天，所以这已经是一个三倍的增长，而且我们都还没有进入主流市场。

Mia Bao：跟过去的扩容解决方案例如分片，二层网络或侧链之类不同的是，Flow创建了独特的多节点架构，在不损失安全性的同时又保证了去中心化，这是如何做到的？请问Flow将如何挑选节点，节点的权益、义务与奖励是什么？所有面向DAPP的公链都在争夺开发者，请问Flow将如何培养开发者？在接下来的6个月里，你最期待Flow上出现怎样的应用？@Roham?

Unlike the former scaling solutions like Sharding, layer2 or sidechains, Flow has created an unique multi-node architecture without loss of safety or decentralization, how does that work? would that be like limited of block-producers（like EOS）? why would that would balance balance both safety and decentralization? @Roham

Roham：the full answer is 100+ pages of technical papers here: https://www.onflow.org/technical-paper。详情可以查看这里。

the more straightforward answer i hinted at above which is –?Flow essentially lets nodes specialize, so you have four different node types each working on one part of the block production process. This lets you have massive decentralization and participation at the consensus and verification steps while having powerful computers that are doing a lot of work – but dont have any control – at the execution and collection steps.?

我在上面提到的是：Flow会希望让节点专门化，所以你有四个不同的节点类型，每个节点在块生产过程的一个部分上工作。这让你有大规模的权力下放和参与的共识和核查步骤，而有强大的计算机正在做很多工作，但没有任何控制的执行和收集步骤。

Consensus Nodes are responsible for consensus in the network — that is, they decide what transactions make it onto the blockchain and in what order.

- Execution Nodes perform the computation associated with each transaction once their presence and order on the blockchain has been finalized by the Consensus Nodes.- Verification Nodes are responsible for keeping the Execution Nodes in check.- And finally, Collection Nodes form a peer-to-peer network that offers the network connectivity and data availability.?

共识节点负责网络中的共识——也就是说，他们决定哪些交易在区块链上以及以何种顺序进行。

执行节点执行与每个交易相关的计算，一旦他们在区块链上的存在和顺序被共识节点确定。

-验证节点负责检查执行节点。

最后，收集节点形成一个点对点网络，提供网络连接和数据可用性。

The beauty of this separation is that Consensus and Verification Nodes, whose role is the most critical for the integrity of the network, can optimize for the security + decentralization side of the triangle in the trilemma.

Execution and Collection Nodes, conversely, do work that is fully deterministic (making them less vulnerable to attack). Their work is also verified and held accountable by the other node types. They can therefore safely optimize for security + scalability.?

这种分离的美妙之处在于，共识和验证节点，其作用对于网络的完整性来说是最关键的，可以优化三角的安全+去中心化侧。

-执行和收集节点，相反，做完全确定性的工作(使它们不那么容易受到攻击)。它们的工作也由其他节点类型进行验证和问责。

因此，它们可以安全地优化安全性+可伸缩性。

Mia Bao：近期有很多人在尝试NFT+DeFi的玩法（WHALE、MEME、yNFT、Aavegotchi），甚至有人认为两者结合将会引发新一波热潮，请问各位嘉宾，针对NFT+DeFi这个方向，目前有什么想法和计划？@Everyone

Lately, many people are interested in a new model combining NFT and DeFi together（WHALE、MEME、yNFT、Aavegotchi,etc.）. ?People believe NFT + DeFi will be a key to unlock the next wave of mainstream adoption, what's your perspective ? @Rem Ong 王礼明 @WhaleShark @roham

Rem Ong : I am extremely excited by all the experimentation in the space, but I think it’s too early to say NFT+DeFi will lead to mainstream adoption this year.??There is very clear value for using NFTs in financial applications, and using them in the DeFi context, whether it’s as collateral or as a claim to certain assets is a good first step.???

我非常兴奋这个领域中的所有的实验，但我认为现在说NFT+DeFi成为主流今年还为时过早。有非常明确的使用价值NFTs在金融应用中，以及在DeFi环境中使用它们，无论是作为抵押品还是作为对某些资产的债权，都是很好的第一步。

NFT+DeFi can also create new financial markets that are impractical to implement in the real world.??Take mortgages for example, each individual mortgage is tied to a specific property, and thus is non-fungible.??Because it’s inefficient to buy and sell individual mortgages in traditional finance, lenders have packaged them in a basket which can then be resold in a fungible manner, e.g. mortgage bonds.??By leveraging the efficiencies of blockchain, you can create a pool of mortgages and issue fungible ERC-20 tokens against the basket, or you could buy and sell individual ERC-721s representing individual mortgages as well.??You could even issue ERC-20 tokens representing fractional ownership of each individual mortgage, and use robo-advisory algorithms to create your own portfolio of different individual mortgages according to your risk appetite.

NFT+DeFi还可以创造新的金融市场，那些在现实世界中实施是不切实际的场景。以抵押贷款为例，每个个人抵押与特定的财产，因此是不可替代的。因为在传统金融中买卖个人抵押贷款效率低下，贷款人将其打包成一个篮子，然后以可替代的方式转售，例如抵押债券。通过利用区块链的效率，你可以创建一个抵押库，并发行可替代的ERC-20代币，或者你也可以购买和出售代表个人抵押的单个ERC-721。你甚至可以发行代表每个抵押贷款部分所有权的ERC-20代币，并使用机器人智能算法根据你的风险偏好创建自己的不同抵押贷款组合。

Roham: Personally I think NFTs will lead to mainstream adoption this year, which will allow for consumer-scale "defi" usecases (that to consumers will feel more like Robin Hood and Wealthfront than anything else)?

我个人认为NFTs将会在今年（接下来12个月）被主流所采用，这会让DeFi进入大规模范围视野（对消费者来说，这将比其他任何东西都更像 Robin Hood和Wealthfront）。

Super mainstream-ready experience –?now imagine if you have a large collection and you want to take out a loan, or you want to bundle it and trade with someone else, or fractionalize your collection like Whaleshark – those become really easy and sustainable with a big enough userbase. but ti's all about user experience and user value?

想要成为主流的体验-现在想象一下，如果你有很大一批收藏，你想贷款，或者你想把他们打包，然后和别人交易，或像WhaleShark一样细分你的收藏-NFT会让这一切变的很容易，很可持续化，如果你有一个足够大的用户基础话，但最终产品的关键都会是用户体验和用户价值。

here's a link that should let you skip the queue in nba top shot: http://nbatopshot.com/r/roham?这里有一个链接可以让你插队购买nba top shot：http://nbatopshot.com/r/roham

WhaleShark：我觉得DeFi和NFT是一个很好的而结合，我们WHALE早就在玩流动性挖矿，H2P，以及NFT Mining了。我们这个NFTMining，就是这些艺术家会创造作品，只能用WHALE来进行购买，通过他们每个月的销售份额，我们有一个2000多个WHALE的一个基金，奖励给他们。

最后就是我们也会把一些作品airdrop给我们的流动性提供者，所以大家做流动性挖矿不仅仅可以赚WHALE还可以赚NFT。

Mia Bao：前两天Uniswap发布了平台代币Uni，从流动性挖矿的数据来看，现在不管是DeFi还是CeFi，都沦为了大户的游戏，散户参与的门槛很高也没有太多利润，针对于这个现象，你们怎么看？UNI已经成为名副其实的DEX第一名，请问各位嘉宾如何看待DEX与CEX的竞争？另外，在你们个人的投资组合中，排名前五的是哪些加密货币？@Everyone

Several days ago, Uniswap released its platform token Uni. According to the data of its liquidity mining, whether it is DeFi or CeFi, it seems to be a game of whales where the threshold for retail investors is extremely high. What's your perspective? Uniswap has clearly been the top 1 DEX in the world, how would you see the competition between DEX and CEX? Besides, what's the top 5 cryptos in your portfolio? @Everyone

Roham: I'm a fan of the product and of the team, definitely agree DEXs are critical to long-term healty of crypto ecosystems – but CEXs are necessary for onramps and offramps which will be important likely forever so... not a competition! let's make the pie bigger and grow adoption together :)?

我是这个产品和团队的粉丝，我非常同意DEXs对于加密生态系统的长期健康是至关重要的，但是CEXs是必要的。让我们把蛋糕做大，共同成长：）

Rem Ong: For any product, there is an adoption curve.??For a DeFi or CeFi product, professional investors and traders will usually be the early adopters, and retail and individual users will follow after.??This is why it appears DeFi is dominated by whales right now.

But I think one key difference is that there are no barriers for anyone to participate in DeFi. ?In traditional finance, there is no such thing as a retail market maker, because of minimum capital requirements, licensing requirements, etc. ?With Uniswap, someone could contribute 0.01 ETH to the liquidity pool and be a market maker. ?So DeFi truly opens up new opportunities for users that they didn't have before.?

对于任何产品，都有一个发展曲线。对于DeFi或CeFi产品，专业投资者和交易员通常是早期采用者，散户和个人用户将紧随其后。这就是为什么DeFi现在被鲸鱼统治的原因。

但我认为一个关键的区别是，任何人参与DeFi都没有障碍。在传统金融中，由于最低资本要求、许可要求等原因，不存在零售市场做市商。有了Uniswap，有人就可以为流动性池贡献0.01 ETH，成为做市商。因此，DeFi真正为用户打开了他们以前没有的新机会。

I think DEXes have come a long way in terms of matching, liquidity, and scalability, but still have many issues like high gas fees, slow throughput, user experience. ?As of now, I think there will continue to be tradeoffs between CEXes (faster matching and settlement) and DEXes (better security, broader set of trading pairs), and both might coexist for some time?

我认为DEXes在匹配、流动性和可扩展性方面已经取得了很大的进步，但是仍然存在很多问题，比如高昂的天然气费用、缓慢的吞吐量和用户体验。到目前为止，我认为CEXes（更快的匹配和结算）和DEXes（更好的安全性，更广泛的交易对）之间将继续进行权衡，而且两者可能会共存一段时间。

WhaleShark：我是非常支持uniswap和AMM，因为我觉得他会带来两个核心的优势吧。第一个优势，就是它没有AML和KYC，虽然，我本人也会用一些大的交易所，但是我一直都觉得AML跟QL这些手续，有些时候不是太准确，而且花费很长时间，我去年注册了一个Binance的账号，但还到现在还没有KYC和AML结束。

我觉得uniswap有成为世界最大的交易所的潜能，所以其实他们刚上uni的时候我本人也买了非常多的UNI。

我目前portfolio里面主要ETH、Tezos、UNI、WHALE、稳定币包括USDC和USDT。然后绝对不可以忘记，就是未来的flow，还有Immutable X快要上线的，这个也是一个NFT的一个攻略吧。

Mia Bao：我们知道接下来大家都会开始推出一些新动作，那是否可以有请各位嘉宾想跟大家透露一下接下来的计划呢？以及接下来的行情你们怎么看@EveryoneWe all know that no matter for Flow, Whale or Fenbushi Capital, will start something big later. Would you guys reveal it a little bit about the upcoming plan? and How do you guys see the market today? will it retrace even harder ? @roham @WhaleShark @Rem Ong

Roham: I can’t comment on the market :) I’m focused on executing. Lots of things going on with Dapper Labs, get in the flow with us:?- Skip the NBA Top Shot waitlist https://nbatopshot.com/r/roham- Join discord.gg/flow and discord.gg/nbatopshot- Join Flow / CK / NBA on WeChat with the QR code- Explore the Flow Community Sale: https://coinlist.co/flow (not open to US, Canada, or mainland China)?

我不能评论市场。我更专注于执行。关于Dapper Labs我们要做很多事情，以下是大家可以参与的活动：

-NBA Top Shot候选名单：https://NBA Top Shot.com/r/roham-加入discord.gg/flow 和 discord.gg/nbatopshot-用二维码加入微信公众号/CK/NBA-探讨Flow社区公募: https://coinlist.co/flow:（不对美国、加拿大或中国大陆开放）

WhaleShark：这次我是第三次跟大家分享WHALE的未来进展，现在不管是NFT方向还是DeFi方向我们都还是挺积极在发展。我们会在每周一早上十点开会，到时候都可以把会议进展公布给大家。但是我可以说，目前NFT的这个趋势肯定只会变得越来越火，而且WHALE目前在这个领域的定位挺好的，最近一些金融机构还有一些金融分析机构的会议还是比较多啊，所以我可以跟大家说，NFT肯定是未来的一个DeFi，如果大家还没接触过，欢迎你们来WHALE社区感受一下，或者直接打算去买一些NFT试试看吧。

Rem Ong : Fenbushi Capital has spent the past 5 years building the ecosystem, attracting new entrepreneurs to build new ideas in the space.

In the next 5 years, our focus is on growing and scaling the space, working with our portfolio to bring the first billion users to benefit from blockchain.

In the time we've been in the space, we've already seen many cycles and short term volatility is a given. ?But we always remain long term bullish , and seeing entrepreneurs like @roham and @WhaleShark continuing to push the space forward is our bullish signal!?

在过去的5年里，分布式资本一直在构建生态系统，吸引着新的创业者在这个领域中建立新的想法。

在接下来的5年，我们的重点是增长和扩展空间，与我们的投资组合，使第一用户受益于区块链。

在我们进入这个领域的这段时间里，我们已经看到了很多周期，短期波动是一个给定的结果。但我们总是保持长期看涨，看到企业家们喜欢我们。@roham和@WhaleShark继续推进空间前进是我们看涨的信号！